<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: links for 2008-11-14</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/</link>
	<description>Amy Gahran's news and musings on how we communicate in the online age.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:38:23 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224344</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224344</guid>
		<description>I neglected to comment on this part of your post:

&gt; My statement is no different than a polyamorist stating that 
&gt; monogamy is close-minded or imprisoning. 

No, I do not believe that is a valid analogy. A more accurate one would be if a polyamorist said &quot;Monogamous people are narrow-minded.&quot;

It may appear subtle, but the difference is substantial. In your analogy, the polymorist is making a judgment about monogamy. In my analogy, the polyamorist is saying something judgmental about the monogamous PERSON.

You have made a judgment about a person based on a very wrong definition of &quot;polyamory.&quot; It would be no different than if I said Christians are hypocrites.

How would you like it if you asked out a perfectly decent, monogamous, intelligent man who rebuffed you with &quot;But you&#039;re a Christian. Christians believe in talking snakes, virgin births and an invisible man in the sky who has a list of things he doesn&#039;t want you to do .... so you&#039;re an idiot!&quot;

He would have judged you based on a very narrow, bigoted concept of what your religion is. He may or may not be a bigot, but his statement certainly is. I would be just as aggressive in denouncing that kind of behavior as I am in denouncing yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I neglected to comment on this part of your post:</p>
<p>&gt; My statement is no different than a polyamorist stating that<br />
&gt; monogamy is close-minded or imprisoning. </p>
<p>No, I do not believe that is a valid analogy. A more accurate one would be if a polyamorist said &#8220;Monogamous people are narrow-minded.&#8221;</p>
<p>It may appear subtle, but the difference is substantial. In your analogy, the polymorist is making a judgment about monogamy. In my analogy, the polyamorist is saying something judgmental about the monogamous PERSON.</p>
<p>You have made a judgment about a person based on a very wrong definition of &#8220;polyamory.&#8221; It would be no different than if I said Christians are hypocrites.</p>
<p>How would you like it if you asked out a perfectly decent, monogamous, intelligent man who rebuffed you with &#8220;But you&#8217;re a Christian. Christians believe in talking snakes, virgin births and an invisible man in the sky who has a list of things he doesn&#8217;t want you to do &#8230;. so you&#8217;re an idiot!&#8221;</p>
<p>He would have judged you based on a very narrow, bigoted concept of what your religion is. He may or may not be a bigot, but his statement certainly is. I would be just as aggressive in denouncing that kind of behavior as I am in denouncing yours.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224342</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224342</guid>
		<description>&gt; I believe that someone is being cheated...

That&#039;s not what you said. You said &quot;cheater.&quot; That vernacular is used to refer to someone who has relationships WITHOUT the consent or knowledge of his/her other relationships; one who is engaged in lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. You put that word in parenthesis as though it were the definition. 

You also equated his &quot;alt. lifestyle&quot; to mean &quot;swinging.&quot; Did he actually say swinging or are you, again, coming up with your own definitions for things?

&gt; Thus, I have an educated, WORLD VIEW of what polyamory is

If you have this &quot;World View&quot; (I really don&#039;t know what you mean by that, but it seems like you are trying to suggest &quot;informed&quot; or &quot;wide&quot; or &quot;deep understanding&quot;), why did you equate polyamory with &quot;cheating&quot;?????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; I believe that someone is being cheated&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not what you said. You said &#8220;cheater.&#8221; That vernacular is used to refer to someone who has relationships WITHOUT the consent or knowledge of his/her other relationships; one who is engaged in lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. You put that word in parenthesis as though it were the definition. </p>
<p>You also equated his &#8220;alt. lifestyle&#8221; to mean &#8220;swinging.&#8221; Did he actually say swinging or are you, again, coming up with your own definitions for things?</p>
<p>&gt; Thus, I have an educated, WORLD VIEW of what polyamory is</p>
<p>If you have this &#8220;World View&#8221; (I really don&#8217;t know what you mean by that, but it seems like you are trying to suggest &#8220;informed&#8221; or &#8220;wide&#8221; or &#8220;deep understanding&#8221;), why did you equate polyamory with &#8220;cheating&#8221;?????</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Beyond JEMS</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224341</link>
		<dc:creator>Beyond JEMS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224341</guid>
		<description>As I have stated, I understand that to the folks involved that it is an open lifestyle that is consented upon by all parties involved. That is what you have stated. That is what I understand it to be. Thus, I have an educated, WORLD VIEW of what polyamory is. But it is a WORLDVIEW. Not my personal Christian view that is a common christian view. If someone has to have multiple partners to be satisfied then I believe that someone is being cheated, whether or not they acknowledge it or agree with it.  It&#039;s my opinion, just the the opposite is your opinion. 

But it does not make me a bigot. Once again, look it up, the definition is very clear “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.” My statement is no different than a polyamorist stating that monogamy is close-minded or imprisoning. It&#039;s an opinion, not a hate crime. 

PS - my very well known conservative church is of the Christian type that believes in the monogamy gig and that&#039;s it. nothing else. so he should find a church that has a more loosely defined version of a committed relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have stated, I understand that to the folks involved that it is an open lifestyle that is consented upon by all parties involved. That is what you have stated. That is what I understand it to be. Thus, I have an educated, WORLD VIEW of what polyamory is. But it is a WORLDVIEW. Not my personal Christian view that is a common christian view. If someone has to have multiple partners to be satisfied then I believe that someone is being cheated, whether or not they acknowledge it or agree with it.  It&#8217;s my opinion, just the the opposite is your opinion. </p>
<p>But it does not make me a bigot. Once again, look it up, the definition is very clear “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.” My statement is no different than a polyamorist stating that monogamy is close-minded or imprisoning. It&#8217;s an opinion, not a hate crime. </p>
<p>PS &#8211; my very well known conservative church is of the Christian type that believes in the monogamy gig and that&#8217;s it. nothing else. so he should find a church that has a more loosely defined version of a committed relationship.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amy Gahran</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224316</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Gahran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224316</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an interesting approach, Kevin. I&#039;ve been toying with the idea of using Yahoo Pipes to do something similar, but this might be a simpler approach. That is, *if* I can get wordpress to hold network link posts in draft form. Right now, using the Delicious blog post feature, it publishes automatically. I&#039;ll look into it.

- Amy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an interesting approach, Kevin. I&#8217;ve been toying with the idea of using Yahoo Pipes to do something similar, but this might be a simpler approach. That is, *if* I can get wordpress to hold network link posts in draft form. Right now, using the Delicious blog post feature, it publishes automatically. I&#8217;ll look into it.</p>
<p>- Amy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amy Gahran</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224315</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Gahran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224315</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I should have noted: Polyamory specifically emphasizes the full knowledge and consent of all people involved in these relationships. That&#039;s why honesty and communication are the cornerstone of this subculture.

...So you see, polyamory REALLY doesn&#039;t have anything to do with cheating. Rather, cheating is a violation of agreements and trust that can occur in any relationship (mono, poly, or otherwise). 

- Amy Gahran</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I should have noted: Polyamory specifically emphasizes the full knowledge and consent of all people involved in these relationships. That&#8217;s why honesty and communication are the cornerstone of this subculture.</p>
<p>&#8230;So you see, polyamory REALLY doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with cheating. Rather, cheating is a violation of agreements and trust that can occur in any relationship (mono, poly, or otherwise). </p>
<p>- Amy Gahran</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224313</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224313</guid>
		<description>&gt; I am an educated female with a full world view and definition of polyamory.

Clearly, a WRONG definition. You specifically equate it with, your own words, &quot;cheating.&quot;

Polyamory is not cheating. If you think it is, you are suffering from a deep, fundamental ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; I am an educated female with a full world view and definition of polyamory.</p>
<p>Clearly, a WRONG definition. You specifically equate it with, your own words, &#8220;cheating.&#8221;</p>
<p>Polyamory is not cheating. If you think it is, you are suffering from a deep, fundamental ignorance.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amy Gahran</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224304</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Gahran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224304</guid>
		<description>Well, actually yes -- your Twitter post did include a flat-out bigoted, ignorant statement. 

You said, in part: &quot;...polyamory (aka cheaters)...&quot;

That&#039;s a gross and derogatory misrepresentation/stereotyping of polyamorous people. It may have been willful on your part, or perhaps merely reflects your ignorance -- but making that statement was indeed an act of bigotry.

Polyamory -- in case you didn&#039;t know -- is being open to having more than one intimate relationship at a time which may involve sex, deep emotional commitment, or even life partnership or family structure. Polyamorous relationships demand an extraordinarily high level of honesty and communication.

That&#039;s not to say that all poly people are perfect, or that polyamory is superior to monogamy. They&#039;re just different approaches. But to characterize poly folk as &quot;cheaters&quot; is to call them dishonest and irresponsible. Which is not merely insulting, but ignorant.

What you said is no different from saying:
- &quot;black people (aka thieves)&quot;
- &quot;Jews (aka greedy shysters)&quot;
- &quot;gays (aka perverts)&quot;
- &quot;women (aka bitches)&quot;
- &quot;Christians (aka morons)&quot;

Note that I did not malign your character as a person. I simply observed that you made a bigoted statement. There&#039;s a difference. I know nothing about you except what you tweeted and posted above.

Obviously, you prefer monogamy, that&#039;s fine. And obviously you prefer to only date monogamous people. That&#039;s fine -- it&#039;s up to you to draw boundaries and define standards in your own relationships. And it&#039;s up to other people to make their own choices about such personal matters.

But puh-leeeze: acting offended because someone who doesn&#039;t happen meet your personal criteria happened to express interest in you? Insulting their choices simply because they&#039;re different from yours? Kinda childish.

FYI, there are a lot of poly people who identify as Christian. So even in a Christian church, it&#039;s naive to assume everyone you meet prefers monogamy.

If you absolutely insist on associating with or dating only other people who only want monogamy (which is fine), then it&#039;s up to YOU to make your requirement clear up front. Or to at least inquire politely about the other person&#039;s preferences, and then say &quot;no thanks&quot; if they aren&#039;t of interest to you for dating. 

But acting offended that a poly guy would ask you out -- especially if he was polite about it? Puh-leeeze.....

- Amy Gahran</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, actually yes &#8212; your Twitter post did include a flat-out bigoted, ignorant statement. </p>
<p>You said, in part: &#8220;&#8230;polyamory (aka cheaters)&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a gross and derogatory misrepresentation/stereotyping of polyamorous people. It may have been willful on your part, or perhaps merely reflects your ignorance &#8212; but making that statement was indeed an act of bigotry.</p>
<p>Polyamory &#8212; in case you didn&#8217;t know &#8212; is being open to having more than one intimate relationship at a time which may involve sex, deep emotional commitment, or even life partnership or family structure. Polyamorous relationships demand an extraordinarily high level of honesty and communication.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that all poly people are perfect, or that polyamory is superior to monogamy. They&#8217;re just different approaches. But to characterize poly folk as &#8220;cheaters&#8221; is to call them dishonest and irresponsible. Which is not merely insulting, but ignorant.</p>
<p>What you said is no different from saying:<br />
- &#8220;black people (aka thieves)&#8221;<br />
- &#8220;Jews (aka greedy shysters)&#8221;<br />
- &#8220;gays (aka perverts)&#8221;<br />
- &#8220;women (aka bitches)&#8221;<br />
- &#8220;Christians (aka morons)&#8221;</p>
<p>Note that I did not malign your character as a person. I simply observed that you made a bigoted statement. There&#8217;s a difference. I know nothing about you except what you tweeted and posted above.</p>
<p>Obviously, you prefer monogamy, that&#8217;s fine. And obviously you prefer to only date monogamous people. That&#8217;s fine &#8212; it&#8217;s up to you to draw boundaries and define standards in your own relationships. And it&#8217;s up to other people to make their own choices about such personal matters.</p>
<p>But puh-leeeze: acting offended because someone who doesn&#8217;t happen meet your personal criteria happened to express interest in you? Insulting their choices simply because they&#8217;re different from yours? Kinda childish.</p>
<p>FYI, there are a lot of poly people who identify as Christian. So even in a Christian church, it&#8217;s naive to assume everyone you meet prefers monogamy.</p>
<p>If you absolutely insist on associating with or dating only other people who only want monogamy (which is fine), then it&#8217;s up to YOU to make your requirement clear up front. Or to at least inquire politely about the other person&#8217;s preferences, and then say &#8220;no thanks&#8221; if they aren&#8217;t of interest to you for dating. </p>
<p>But acting offended that a poly guy would ask you out &#8212; especially if he was polite about it? Puh-leeeze&#8230;..</p>
<p>- Amy Gahran</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Beyond JEMS</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224297</link>
		<dc:creator>Beyond JEMS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224297</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry that you dont agree with me or my beliefs, but I am not a bigot. I am an educated female with a full world view and definition of polyamory. But I just dont agree with it. It is between 3 consenting adults, you have every right to engage in whatever you chose. But that doesnt mean that I agree with it or approve of it. Disagreeing or disapproving is not the same as being a bigot. That definition is &quot;a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.&quot; I&#039;m none of these. But when I&#039;m in a known conservative Christian church, dont pick me up as if I&#039;m going to forego my beliefs for &#039;an open lifestyle&#039;. Seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry that you dont agree with me or my beliefs, but I am not a bigot. I am an educated female with a full world view and definition of polyamory. But I just dont agree with it. It is between 3 consenting adults, you have every right to engage in whatever you chose. But that doesnt mean that I agree with it or approve of it. Disagreeing or disapproving is not the same as being a bigot. That definition is &#8220;a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.&#8221; I&#8217;m none of these. But when I&#8217;m in a known conservative Christian church, dont pick me up as if I&#8217;m going to forego my beliefs for &#8216;an open lifestyle&#8217;. Seriously.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Sablan</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/comment-page-1/#comment-1224281</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Sablan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/2008/11/14/links-for-2008-11-14/#comment-1224281</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the mention. I just started editing those link-posts very recently, out of (what I perceive as) necessity. As I&#039;ve add all these great Delicious bookmarkers to my network, the volume of daily links has grown into a list that is simply to long to be useful when presented as a long bulleted list. I&#039;m glad you find the minimal editing useful. By the way, I&#039;ve added you to my network and some of your links from Friday appear in my latest post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the mention. I just started editing those link-posts very recently, out of (what I perceive as) necessity. As I&#8217;ve add all these great Delicious bookmarkers to my network, the volume of daily links has grown into a list that is simply to long to be useful when presented as a long bulleted list. I&#8217;m glad you find the minimal editing useful. By the way, I&#8217;ve added you to my network and some of your links from Friday appear in my latest post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
