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	<title>Comments on: Being a Citizen Shouldn&#8217;t Be So Hard! Part 2: Beyond Government</title>
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	<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/</link>
	<description>Amy Gahran&#039;s news and musings on how we communicate in the online age.</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Knauss</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1227172</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Knauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1227172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS: the link to my past effort to get KF onto data friction: http://garage.newschallenge.org/projects/open-city-data-collaboration-milwaukee-wi/description/open-city-data-collaboration-milwauke]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS: the link to my past effort to get KF onto data friction: <a href="http://garage.newschallenge.org/projects/open-city-data-collaboration-milwaukee-wi/description/open-city-data-collaboration-milwauke" rel="nofollow">http://garage.newschallenge.org/projects/open-city-data-collaboration-milwaukee-wi/description/open-city-data-collaboration-milwauke</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan Knauss</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1227171</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Knauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1227171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just found this series...great stuff. Did you get anywhere trying to get the Knight Foundation to think about addressing data friction? I didn&#039;t:

It&#039;s kind of a no-brainer: journalists with big, heavily trafficked news/community sites stand to get &quot;free content&quot; via increasing &quot;gov2.0&quot; data dissemination--pure primary source material for newspapers to analyse openly with/for their audiences, if their web teams are up to it.

Just up on DIYcity.org (John Geraci of Outside.in started this super project) ...

DIYcity Challenge #7: Open Data!
http://diycity.org/challenge/diycity-challenge-7-open-data

&quot;Lots of city agencies all over the world have data online that is accessible to humans in readable format, yet isn&#039;t accessible to other computers and programs via an API. Some agencies don&#039;t have the means to turn their data into an API, others don&#039;t have the inclination to do so.

Can we help these agencies to open their data?

DIYcity Challenge #7: build a site scraper for the website of a city agency in your city that scrapes data, dumps it into a database, and offers that to everyone in API format.

Do not violate any copyrights for this challenge - please only scrape publicly accessible government data, not data from 3rd party sites.

DIYcity can help host any scraping bots, databases and APIs that come out of this challenge. Or just point us to a dataset you&#039;ve scraped and we&#039;ll make a list in the wiki.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found this series&#8230;great stuff. Did you get anywhere trying to get the Knight Foundation to think about addressing data friction? I didn&#8217;t:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of a no-brainer: journalists with big, heavily trafficked news/community sites stand to get &#8220;free content&#8221; via increasing &#8220;gov2.0&#8243; data dissemination&#8211;pure primary source material for newspapers to analyse openly with/for their audiences, if their web teams are up to it.</p>
<p>Just up on DIYcity.org (John Geraci of Outside.in started this super project) &#8230;</p>
<p>DIYcity Challenge #7: Open Data!<br />
<a href="http://diycity.org/challenge/diycity-challenge-7-open-data" rel="nofollow">http://diycity.org/challenge/diycity-challenge-7-open-data</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Lots of city agencies all over the world have data online that is accessible to humans in readable format, yet isn&#8217;t accessible to other computers and programs via an API. Some agencies don&#8217;t have the means to turn their data into an API, others don&#8217;t have the inclination to do so.</p>
<p>Can we help these agencies to open their data?</p>
<p>DIYcity Challenge #7: build a site scraper for the website of a city agency in your city that scrapes data, dumps it into a database, and offers that to everyone in API format.</p>
<p>Do not violate any copyrights for this challenge &#8211; please only scrape publicly accessible government data, not data from 3rd party sites.</p>
<p>DIYcity can help host any scraping bots, databases and APIs that come out of this challenge. Or just point us to a dataset you&#8217;ve scraped and we&#8217;ll make a list in the wiki.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Taber</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1223780</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Taber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1223780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your phrase &quot;too little support for timely, effective citizen participation&quot; says it all. When I conducted a national survey of political researchers in 2001 on the topic of community-based research, their conclusion was that 1. almost no one does research, 2. useful research is rarely found on the Internet or in the media, 3. individuals who do research are usually not activists, and 4. independent research applicable to effective citizen participation is practically never supported by the communities that could use it.

In my subsequent report, Research as Organizing Tool, I elaborate on these findings for the benefit of those who often feel adrift in a sea of useless information and propaganda. In my essay, The Public Health Model, I explain that the reason useful research is held in such low regard is largely due to the ineffective models of engagement the politically illiterate bring to civic affairs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your phrase &#8220;too little support for timely, effective citizen participation&#8221; says it all. When I conducted a national survey of political researchers in 2001 on the topic of community-based research, their conclusion was that 1. almost no one does research, 2. useful research is rarely found on the Internet or in the media, 3. individuals who do research are usually not activists, and 4. independent research applicable to effective citizen participation is practically never supported by the communities that could use it.</p>
<p>In my subsequent report, Research as Organizing Tool, I elaborate on these findings for the benefit of those who often feel adrift in a sea of useless information and propaganda. In my essay, The Public Health Model, I explain that the reason useful research is held in such low regard is largely due to the ineffective models of engagement the politically illiterate bring to civic affairs.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Shane</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1223764</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1223764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amy, I really love this discussion, but have to offer one amendment.  You state that the Knight Commission is starting with the question, &quot;What kind of information do communities need?”  This is not quite right.  We are starting with the question, &quot;What are the information needs of communities in a democracy?&quot;  The difference is that the Commission is tending towards the view that &quot;information needs&quot; include not only information per se, but also structures, processes, and enabling conditions through which people can turn information into community empowerment.  To elaborate that view, we need, of course, to understand better what constitutes the information infrastructure of geographically defined local communities.  Within such communities, all of us undoubtedly do rely, inevitably, on a host of information intermediaries to clue us in to the overwhelming majority of what we regard as our daily knowledge acquisition.  The issue, as I see it, is how to maximize the likelihood that our networks of information intermediaries, formal and informal, will be as inclusive, relevant, and trustworthy as possible.

Best, Peter]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy, I really love this discussion, but have to offer one amendment.  You state that the Knight Commission is starting with the question, &#8220;What kind of information do communities need?”  This is not quite right.  We are starting with the question, &#8220;What are the information needs of communities in a democracy?&#8221;  The difference is that the Commission is tending towards the view that &#8220;information needs&#8221; include not only information per se, but also structures, processes, and enabling conditions through which people can turn information into community empowerment.  To elaborate that view, we need, of course, to understand better what constitutes the information infrastructure of geographically defined local communities.  Within such communities, all of us undoubtedly do rely, inevitably, on a host of information intermediaries to clue us in to the overwhelming majority of what we regard as our daily knowledge acquisition.  The issue, as I see it, is how to maximize the likelihood that our networks of information intermediaries, formal and informal, will be as inclusive, relevant, and trustworthy as possible.</p>
<p>Best, Peter</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Comings</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1223756</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Comings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1223756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...perhaps we need more journalism that recognizes and supports this development...

Thanks Donica. That&#039;s the point I tried to make in Part I. And while Amy&#039;s comment remains true that &quot;We’ve largely shifted to (third parties/journalists&#039;) shoulders most responsibility to clue us in when something is brewing in government,&quot; it&#039;s not for no reason that&#039;s happened.

Maybe as a journo I&#039;m just too inside the forest to see anything but the trees. There can be other, more direct ways to connect users to information, but with increased transparency in journalism we can offer more of those connections without inserting ourselves as filters.

...They’re doing this by starting from the question “What kind of information do communities need?”

Sounds right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;perhaps we need more journalism that recognizes and supports this development&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks Donica. That&#8217;s the point I tried to make in Part I. And while Amy&#8217;s comment remains true that &#8220;We’ve largely shifted to (third parties/journalists&#8217;) shoulders most responsibility to clue us in when something is brewing in government,&#8221; it&#8217;s not for no reason that&#8217;s happened.</p>
<p>Maybe as a journo I&#8217;m just too inside the forest to see anything but the trees. There can be other, more direct ways to connect users to information, but with increased transparency in journalism we can offer more of those connections without inserting ourselves as filters.</p>
<p>&#8230;They’re doing this by starting from the question “What kind of information do communities need?”</p>
<p>Sounds right.</p>
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		<title>By: Donica Mensing</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1223750</link>
		<dc:creator>Donica Mensing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1223750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my own experience, few people think they suffer from lack of information. Only in very specific instances (unexpectedly high bills from sewer hookups, for example) do most people actively seek more information than they are already getting. 

If we believe the problem is citizens not getting the right information or it not being delivered in user-friendly ways, we&#039;ll have to make a convincing argument about why and how more information is going to make a difference.  

One model of democracy assumes people are interested citizens who  seek information to develop rational opinions about public affairs. Other models show that people form emotional and personal interests in a subject and then seek information -- not the other way around. As Schudson describes it, they use the media for monitorial purposes -- turning to the news when something of high personal interest happens but otherwise paying only enough attention to know if the world is blowing up or not. This sounds a little like the &quot;democracy radar&quot; you describe.

I wonder, given the evolution of networks and groups, whether speaking at the level of &quot;communities&quot; and &quot;people&quot; is specific enough to be useful anymore. It sounds a little like the mass media model, assuming a public &quot;out there&quot; that we only imagine but doesn&#039;t really exist. If publics are becoming more fluid and responsive to specific issues, perhaps we need more journalism that recognizes and supports this development.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my own experience, few people think they suffer from lack of information. Only in very specific instances (unexpectedly high bills from sewer hookups, for example) do most people actively seek more information than they are already getting. </p>
<p>If we believe the problem is citizens not getting the right information or it not being delivered in user-friendly ways, we&#8217;ll have to make a convincing argument about why and how more information is going to make a difference.  </p>
<p>One model of democracy assumes people are interested citizens who  seek information to develop rational opinions about public affairs. Other models show that people form emotional and personal interests in a subject and then seek information &#8212; not the other way around. As Schudson describes it, they use the media for monitorial purposes &#8212; turning to the news when something of high personal interest happens but otherwise paying only enough attention to know if the world is blowing up or not. This sounds a little like the &#8220;democracy radar&#8221; you describe.</p>
<p>I wonder, given the evolution of networks and groups, whether speaking at the level of &#8220;communities&#8221; and &#8220;people&#8221; is specific enough to be useful anymore. It sounds a little like the mass media model, assuming a public &#8220;out there&#8221; that we only imagine but doesn&#8217;t really exist. If publics are becoming more fluid and responsive to specific issues, perhaps we need more journalism that recognizes and supports this development.</p>
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		<title>By: &#160; Being a Citizen Shouldn&#8217;t Be So Hard! Part 1: Human Nature &#160;&#8212;&#160;contentious.com</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2008/09/16/being-a-citizen-shouldnt-be-so-hard-part-2-beyond-government/comment-page-1/#comment-1223748</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; Being a Citizen Shouldn&#8217;t Be So Hard! Part 1: Human Nature &#160;&#8212;&#160;contentious.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contentious.com/?p=1852#comment-1223748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] NOTE: This is part 1 of a multipart series. More to come over the next few days. See Part 2. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NOTE: This is part 1 of a multipart series. More to come over the next few days. See Part 2. [...]</p>
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