Comments on: New J-Skills: What to Measure? http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/ Amy Gahran's news and musings on how we communicate in the online age. Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:48:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Hvad skal fremtidens journalister kunne? « Ernst Poulsen’s Weblog http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1219641 Hvad skal fremtidens journalister kunne? « Ernst Poulsen’s Weblog Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:04:26 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1219641 [...] er en diskussion, som også er aktuel på Lars K. Jensen, Kim Elmose og Amy Gahrans [...] [...] er en diskussion, som også er aktuel på Lars K. Jensen, Kim Elmose og Amy Gahrans [...]

]]> By: O que os futuros jornalistas deveriam aprender na faculdade? « Webmanário http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218530 O que os futuros jornalistas deveriam aprender na faculdade? « Webmanário Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:41:44 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218530 [...] 17, 2008 · No Comments Com a palavra, a professora americana Amy Gahran, que tem defendido (assim como eu) uma forte ênfase nas novas ferramentas on-line _e na habilidade [...] [...] 17, 2008 · No Comments Com a palavra, a professora americana Amy Gahran, que tem defendido (assim como eu) uma forte ênfase nas novas ferramentas on-line _e na habilidade [...]

]]> By: JamesRB http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218461 JamesRB Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:10:37 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218461 Fascinating post. I'm a journalism student in the UK just finishing a post-graduate course. I also very recently had an article published (reposted on my blog) on this very topic. All of the ideas you propose are interesting, but the consensus with other commenters seems to be that such a programme would require a 2-3 year degree. A lot of journalism students (over here, at least) take a first degree in another area - economics in my case - then a 1 year postgrad journalism qualification. Our course has very little new media content, but term is already packed. Can we really expect students to take 2-3 years extra education when the starting pay into journalism is so low? We need journalists with knowledge outside journalism - science, business and technology reporters should all know their fields. Journalism education needs to cut to just core skills - and I think in this case, that means leaving the business side to learn on-the-job. After all, learning writing, reporting, copy editing, shorthand, CMS, mobile tech, design, and media law is enough for anyone to be getting on with...isn't it? Fascinating post. I’m a journalism student in the UK just finishing a post-graduate course. I also very recently had an article published (reposted on my blog) on this very topic.

All of the ideas you propose are interesting, but the consensus with other commenters seems to be that such a programme would require a 2-3 year degree.

A lot of journalism students (over here, at least) take a first degree in another area - economics in my case - then a 1 year postgrad journalism qualification.

Our course has very little new media content, but term is already packed. Can we really expect students to take 2-3 years extra education when the starting pay into journalism is so low?

We need journalists with knowledge outside journalism - science, business and technology reporters should all know their fields. Journalism education needs to cut to just core skills - and I think in this case, that means leaving the business side to learn on-the-job.

After all, learning writing, reporting, copy editing, shorthand, CMS, mobile tech, design, and media law is enough for anyone to be getting on with…isn’t it?

]]> By: Amy Gahran http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218330 Amy Gahran Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:55:28 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218330 Hi, Felicia I'm sorry to hear that you feel shortchanged in some important ways by your graduate journalism education -- but I'm not surprised. I'm thinking there's an opportunity here for a journalism organization that offers e-learning (maybe Poynter? I'll nudge folks there) to partner with a business school that offers e-learning to create online courses and exercises. Not a formal graduate degree per se, but a partnership that would at least provide journalists in need with valid skills. Given the fairly fossilized structure of most j-schools, maybe it doesn't make sense to work within their degree programs for this. Maybe we need more freedom to hire the right people and form the right partnerships to offer this education. Only holding a bachelor's degree myself, I tend to think advanced degree programs in many fields (including journalism) are often vastly overrated. There are many other options for getting the education you need, IMHO. - Amy Gahran Hi, Felicia

I’m sorry to hear that you feel shortchanged in some important ways by your graduate journalism education — but I’m not surprised.

I’m thinking there’s an opportunity here for a journalism organization that offers e-learning (maybe Poynter? I’ll nudge folks there) to partner with a business school that offers e-learning to create online courses and exercises. Not a formal graduate degree per se, but a partnership that would at least provide journalists in need with valid skills.

Given the fairly fossilized structure of most j-schools, maybe it doesn’t make sense to work within their degree programs for this. Maybe we need more freedom to hire the right people and form the right partnerships to offer this education.

Only holding a bachelor’s degree myself, I tend to think advanced degree programs in many fields (including journalism) are often vastly overrated. There are many other options for getting the education you need, IMHO.

- Amy Gahran

]]> By: contentious.com - Newsrooms hemorrhage more jobs than ever http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218327 contentious.com - Newsrooms hemorrhage more jobs than ever Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:36:39 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218327 [...] to my earlier point that preparing today’s j-school students (undergrad and grad) mainly to work within [...] [...] to my earlier point that preparing today’s j-school students (undergrad and grad) mainly to work within [...]

]]> By: Felicia Russell http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218326 Felicia Russell Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:36:30 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218326 Hi Amy, As a recent master's graduate, I agree that today's j-school students are somewhat under-prepared for what lies ahead. Schools are scrambling to teach the new skills their students will need in the workforce, but often have trouble finding qualified individuals to teach new-media classes. I've been out of school for a year now and have worked as an editor, writer and Web content developer. I know that there are other markets for my skills, but I don't know where they are. I'm not much better off than I was before grad school. I went back to school to get an inside look at the present and future of journalism. Unfortunately, I don't think j-schools have that perspective right now. The changes we're seeing aren't just about print versus Web. The business of information is changing, too. And that's where I feel most ignorant. -Felicia Russell Hi Amy,
As a recent master’s graduate, I agree that today’s j-school students are somewhat under-prepared for what lies ahead. Schools are scrambling to teach the new skills their students will need in the workforce, but often have trouble finding qualified individuals to teach new-media classes.

I’ve been out of school for a year now and have worked as an editor, writer and Web content developer. I know that there are other markets for my skills, but I don’t know where they are. I’m not much better off than I was before grad school.

I went back to school to get an inside look at the present and future of journalism. Unfortunately, I don’t think j-schools have that perspective right now. The changes we’re seeing aren’t just about print versus Web. The business of information is changing, too. And that’s where I feel most ignorant.
-Felicia Russell

]]> By: Amy Gahran http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218316 Amy Gahran Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:41:56 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218316 Martin -- I didn't say we should abandon print, or core journalism skills. I envision these points in addition to core journalism skills and training for traditional media. That said, traditional news org jobs for journalists are already disappearing at an amazing rate, so it's patently unfair to equip new journalists only with skills, experience, and perspective that relies on getting a traditional news org job. That's setting them up to fail, IMHO. I'd rather give them the skills they really need to make their own opportunities in this fast-changing media landscape. And, as far as I've seen, the vast majority of j-schools fall woefully short in this regard so far. - Amy Gahran Martin — I didn’t say we should abandon print, or core journalism skills. I envision these points in addition to core journalism skills and training for traditional media.

That said, traditional news org jobs for journalists are already disappearing at an amazing rate, so it’s patently unfair to equip new journalists only with skills, experience, and perspective that relies on getting a traditional news org job. That’s setting them up to fail, IMHO.

I’d rather give them the skills they really need to make their own opportunities in this fast-changing media landscape. And, as far as I’ve seen, the vast majority of j-schools fall woefully short in this regard so far.

- Amy Gahran

]]> By: ensino de jornalismo: reflexões « Monitorando http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218307 ensino de jornalismo: reflexões « Monitorando Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:41:53 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218307 [...] ensino de jornalismo: reflexões Postado no 14/ 04/ 2008 de rogério christofoletti A dica é de António Granado, a partir de posts nos blogs de Mindy McAdams e Amy Gahran. [...] [...] ensino de jornalismo: reflexões Postado no 14/ 04/ 2008 de rogério christofoletti A dica é de António Granado, a partir de posts nos blogs de Mindy McAdams e Amy Gahran. [...]

]]> By: O que devem ensinar as escolas de jornalismo? : Ponto Media http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218305 O que devem ensinar as escolas de jornalismo? : Ponto Media Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:55:30 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218305 [...] com um post de Amy Gahran, a que Mindy McAdams respondeu. Amy voltou à carga e concretizou as suas ideias sobre o ensino do jornalismo no século XXI. Vale a pena ler todos os posts e os comentários de cada um [...] [...] com um post de Amy Gahran, a que Mindy McAdams respondeu. Amy voltou à carga e concretizou as suas ideias sobre o ensino do jornalismo no século XXI. Vale a pena ler todos os posts e os comentários de cada um [...]

]]> By: The new journalism syllabus? « Ethical Martini http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/#comment-1218179 The new journalism syllabus? « Ethical Martini Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:34:04 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218179 [...] came back the following day with a comprehensive explanation of the key aspects of her list and the point about entrepreneurial [...] [...] came back the following day with a comprehensive explanation of the key aspects of her list and the point about entrepreneurial [...]

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