Comments on: New J-Skills: What to Measure? http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/ Amy Gahran's news and musings on how we communicate in the online age. Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:38:23 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Readings in Journalism Blog » Improving journalism schools http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1223992 Readings in Journalism Blog » Improving journalism schools Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:05:54 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1223992 [...] a thought piece (”New J-Skills: What to Measure?”) on what Journalism departments should be doing (and [...] [...] a thought piece (”New J-Skills: What to Measure?”) on what Journalism departments should be doing (and [...]

]]> By: ethical martini http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1223906 ethical martini Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:01:54 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1223906 Hi Amy, I didn't mean to imply you suggested we should drop print, I was saying I don't think we can afford to, yet, if at all? So, it seems to me we've still got what a friend of mine calls the "pint pot problem", more beer than space in the glass. We're all under pressure to teach larger classes; our existing staff need re-training till we get some new hires; unless you have a generous dean, or a benefactor program it's unlikely you'll have all the gear you need. Sorry, I don't want to sound too gloomy about it. The technology is becoming cheaper and open-source software is good. I also think there are some great innovations, experiments and pace-setting progams around, particularly in the US - beat blogging, twitter, etc-the rest of the world is catching up. Some faster than others. That's why the j-ed blogs collectively and individually make such an important contribution. Those of us in your and Mindy's slipstreams are lucky and committed fellow travellers. My thinking has lept ahead over the past 12 months. I've had an opportunity to travel and visited a couple of US j-schools and spoken to American and Canadian hackademics. I was at the WEJC gathering in Singapore last year, Exciting, but also somewhat disappointing (for later, over a beer). I'm now in the UK on a three month sabbatical at City University. On 17/18 October there's a conference The End of Journalism? at U Bedfordshire in Luton, then in mid December a one day conference on convergence, media studies, journalism and the curriculum in Bristol. There is movement, progress and plenty to do. I love these comments and posts, I'm learning every day. Marty Hi Amy, I didn’t mean to imply you suggested we should drop print, I was saying I don’t think we can afford to, yet, if at all? So, it seems to me we’ve still got what a friend of mine calls the “pint pot problem”, more beer than space in the glass.
We’re all under pressure to teach larger classes; our existing staff need re-training till we get some new hires; unless you have a generous dean, or a benefactor program it’s unlikely you’ll have all the gear you need.
Sorry, I don’t want to sound too gloomy about it. The technology is becoming cheaper and open-source software is good. I also think there are some great innovations, experiments and pace-setting progams around, particularly in the US – beat blogging, twitter, etc-the rest of the world is catching up. Some faster than others.
That’s why the j-ed blogs collectively and individually make such an important contribution. Those of us in your and Mindy’s slipstreams are lucky and committed fellow travellers.

My thinking has lept ahead over the past 12 months. I’ve had an opportunity to travel and visited a couple of US j-schools and spoken to American and Canadian hackademics. I was at the WEJC gathering in Singapore last year, Exciting, but also somewhat disappointing (for later, over a beer). I’m now in the UK on a three month sabbatical at City University.

On 17/18 October there’s a conference The End of Journalism? at U Bedfordshire in Luton, then in mid December a one day conference on convergence, media studies, journalism and the curriculum in Bristol.

There is movement, progress and plenty to do. I love these comments and posts, I’m learning every day.
Marty

]]> By: sue salinger http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1223891 sue salinger Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:59:39 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1223891 Amy, you are a genius. I keep pitching these areas to be included in syllabi, and keep getting shot down. Someday..... Amy, you are a genius. I keep pitching these areas to be included in syllabi, and keep getting shot down. Someday…..

]]> By: Hvad skal fremtidens journalister kunne? « Ernst Poulsen’s Weblog http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1219641 Hvad skal fremtidens journalister kunne? « Ernst Poulsen’s Weblog Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:04:26 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1219641 [...] er en diskussion, som også er aktuel på Lars K. Jensen, Kim Elmose og Amy Gahrans [...] [...] er en diskussion, som også er aktuel på Lars K. Jensen, Kim Elmose og Amy Gahrans [...]

]]> By: O que os futuros jornalistas deveriam aprender na faculdade? « Webmanário http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1218530 O que os futuros jornalistas deveriam aprender na faculdade? « Webmanário Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:41:44 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218530 [...] 17, 2008 · No Comments Com a palavra, a professora americana Amy Gahran, que tem defendido (assim como eu) uma forte ênfase nas novas ferramentas on-line _e na habilidade [...] [...] 17, 2008 · No Comments Com a palavra, a professora americana Amy Gahran, que tem defendido (assim como eu) uma forte ênfase nas novas ferramentas on-line _e na habilidade [...]

]]> By: JamesRB http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1218461 JamesRB Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:10:37 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218461 Fascinating post. I'm a journalism student in the UK just finishing a post-graduate course. I also very recently had an article published (reposted on my blog) on this very topic. All of the ideas you propose are interesting, but the consensus with other commenters seems to be that such a programme would require a 2-3 year degree. A lot of journalism students (over here, at least) take a first degree in another area - economics in my case - then a 1 year postgrad journalism qualification. Our course has very little new media content, but term is already packed. Can we really expect students to take 2-3 years extra education when the starting pay into journalism is so low? We need journalists with knowledge outside journalism - science, business and technology reporters should all know their fields. Journalism education needs to cut to just core skills - and I think in this case, that means leaving the business side to learn on-the-job. After all, learning writing, reporting, copy editing, shorthand, CMS, mobile tech, design, and media law is enough for anyone to be getting on with...isn't it? Fascinating post. I’m a journalism student in the UK just finishing a post-graduate course. I also very recently had an article published (reposted on my blog) on this very topic.

All of the ideas you propose are interesting, but the consensus with other commenters seems to be that such a programme would require a 2-3 year degree.

A lot of journalism students (over here, at least) take a first degree in another area – economics in my case – then a 1 year postgrad journalism qualification.

Our course has very little new media content, but term is already packed. Can we really expect students to take 2-3 years extra education when the starting pay into journalism is so low?

We need journalists with knowledge outside journalism – science, business and technology reporters should all know their fields. Journalism education needs to cut to just core skills – and I think in this case, that means leaving the business side to learn on-the-job.

After all, learning writing, reporting, copy editing, shorthand, CMS, mobile tech, design, and media law is enough for anyone to be getting on with…isn’t it?

]]> By: Amy Gahran http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1218330 Amy Gahran Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:55:28 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218330 Hi, Felicia I'm sorry to hear that you feel shortchanged in some important ways by your graduate journalism education -- but I'm not surprised. I'm thinking there's an opportunity here for a journalism organization that offers e-learning (maybe Poynter? I'll nudge folks there) to partner with a business school that offers e-learning to create online courses and exercises. Not a formal graduate degree per se, but a partnership that would at least provide journalists in need with valid skills. Given the fairly fossilized structure of most j-schools, maybe it doesn't make sense to work within their degree programs for this. Maybe we need more freedom to hire the right people and form the right partnerships to offer this education. Only holding a bachelor's degree myself, I tend to think advanced degree programs in many fields (including journalism) are often vastly overrated. There are many other options for getting the education you need, IMHO. - Amy Gahran Hi, Felicia

I’m sorry to hear that you feel shortchanged in some important ways by your graduate journalism education — but I’m not surprised.

I’m thinking there’s an opportunity here for a journalism organization that offers e-learning (maybe Poynter? I’ll nudge folks there) to partner with a business school that offers e-learning to create online courses and exercises. Not a formal graduate degree per se, but a partnership that would at least provide journalists in need with valid skills.

Given the fairly fossilized structure of most j-schools, maybe it doesn’t make sense to work within their degree programs for this. Maybe we need more freedom to hire the right people and form the right partnerships to offer this education.

Only holding a bachelor’s degree myself, I tend to think advanced degree programs in many fields (including journalism) are often vastly overrated. There are many other options for getting the education you need, IMHO.

- Amy Gahran

]]> By: contentious.com - Newsrooms hemorrhage more jobs than ever http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1218327 contentious.com - Newsrooms hemorrhage more jobs than ever Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:36:39 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218327 [...] to my earlier point that preparing today’s j-school students (undergrad and grad) mainly to work within [...] [...] to my earlier point that preparing today’s j-school students (undergrad and grad) mainly to work within [...]

]]> By: Felicia Russell http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1218326 Felicia Russell Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:36:30 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218326 Hi Amy, As a recent master's graduate, I agree that today's j-school students are somewhat under-prepared for what lies ahead. Schools are scrambling to teach the new skills their students will need in the workforce, but often have trouble finding qualified individuals to teach new-media classes. I've been out of school for a year now and have worked as an editor, writer and Web content developer. I know that there are other markets for my skills, but I don't know where they are. I'm not much better off than I was before grad school. I went back to school to get an inside look at the present and future of journalism. Unfortunately, I don't think j-schools have that perspective right now. The changes we're seeing aren't just about print versus Web. The business of information is changing, too. And that's where I feel most ignorant. -Felicia Russell Hi Amy,
As a recent master’s graduate, I agree that today’s j-school students are somewhat under-prepared for what lies ahead. Schools are scrambling to teach the new skills their students will need in the workforce, but often have trouble finding qualified individuals to teach new-media classes.

I’ve been out of school for a year now and have worked as an editor, writer and Web content developer. I know that there are other markets for my skills, but I don’t know where they are. I’m not much better off than I was before grad school.

I went back to school to get an inside look at the present and future of journalism. Unfortunately, I don’t think j-schools have that perspective right now. The changes we’re seeing aren’t just about print versus Web. The business of information is changing, too. And that’s where I feel most ignorant.
-Felicia Russell

]]> By: Amy Gahran http://www.contentious.com/2008/04/10/new-j-skills-what-to-measure/comment-page-1/#comment-1218316 Amy Gahran Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:41:56 +0000 http://www.contentious.com/?p=1578#comment-1218316 Martin -- I didn't say we should abandon print, or core journalism skills. I envision these points in addition to core journalism skills and training for traditional media. That said, traditional news org jobs for journalists are already disappearing at an amazing rate, so it's patently unfair to equip new journalists only with skills, experience, and perspective that relies on getting a traditional news org job. That's setting them up to fail, IMHO. I'd rather give them the skills they really need to make their own opportunities in this fast-changing media landscape. And, as far as I've seen, the vast majority of j-schools fall woefully short in this regard so far. - Amy Gahran Martin — I didn’t say we should abandon print, or core journalism skills. I envision these points in addition to core journalism skills and training for traditional media.

That said, traditional news org jobs for journalists are already disappearing at an amazing rate, so it’s patently unfair to equip new journalists only with skills, experience, and perspective that relies on getting a traditional news org job. That’s setting them up to fail, IMHO.

I’d rather give them the skills they really need to make their own opportunities in this fast-changing media landscape. And, as far as I’ve seen, the vast majority of j-schools fall woefully short in this regard so far.

- Amy Gahran

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