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	<title>Comments on: Women at Tech Conferences: Look Beyond Tokenism (comment to Scoble)</title>
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	<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/</link>
	<description>Amy Gahran's news and musings on how we communicate in the online age.</description>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/comment-page-1/#comment-28482</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2005 23:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28482</guid>
		<description>I work at an all women&#039;s college in the IT department and coordinate an internship for 6 women in order to teach them tech skills--mostly web design and multimedia.  It really empowers them and every year, a few former graduates go on into the tech industry--as many as go on from CS!

One of the difficulties I have as a slightly older woman in the tech field is catchup.  Always trying to find time to catch up.  And I have a hard time going to all these conferences on the west coast (I&#039;m on the east coast).  I have a family and job to juggle.  I suspect other women have the same issue.  How about some childcare at some of these conferences?  How about some workshops to help some of us catch up?  And I think addressing these issues head on is essential.  I&#039;m planning to attend SXSW and Etech (despite the latter&#039;s maleness) this year.  I&#039;d love to present but I feel so behind the curve at times.  I&#039;m interested in the struggle I personally have in getting young women interested in technology--how that is possible, strategies, etc.  But I don&#039;t think people want to hear that at these conferences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work at an all women&#8217;s college in the IT department and coordinate an internship for 6 women in order to teach them tech skills&#8211;mostly web design and multimedia.  It really empowers them and every year, a few former graduates go on into the tech industry&#8211;as many as go on from CS!</p>
<p>One of the difficulties I have as a slightly older woman in the tech field is catchup.  Always trying to find time to catch up.  And I have a hard time going to all these conferences on the west coast (I&#8217;m on the east coast).  I have a family and job to juggle.  I suspect other women have the same issue.  How about some childcare at some of these conferences?  How about some workshops to help some of us catch up?  And I think addressing these issues head on is essential.  I&#8217;m planning to attend SXSW and Etech (despite the latter&#8217;s maleness) this year.  I&#8217;d love to present but I feel so behind the curve at times.  I&#8217;m interested in the struggle I personally have in getting young women interested in technology&#8211;how that is possible, strategies, etc.  But I don&#8217;t think people want to hear that at these conferences.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/comment-page-1/#comment-28473</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28473</guid>
		<description>Ooops, the link is www.blogbusinesssummit.com not .org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops, the link is <a href="http://www.blogbusinesssummit.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.blogbusinesssummit.com</a> not .org</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/comment-page-1/#comment-28472</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28472</guid>
		<description>Amy, I applaud what you are trying to do. You&#039;re absolutely right that just having faces up there isn&#039;t enough.

The issue with &#039;meritocracy&#039; is that there is an underlying implicit assumption of what is &#039;meritorious.&#039; It&#039;s subjective, value judgment ultimately. Gender is bit less an issue than worldviews (i.e. there are a lot of men that relate to me but that&#039;s because they hold the same worldview or conceptual &#039;frames&#039; or values that I do.) I recently wrote an essay on worldviews and &quot;value memes&quot; for an upcoming book (More Space, edited by Todd Satterson). It really echoes much of what George Lakoff writes about cognitive science and linguistics. 

&quot;Neuroscience tells us that each of the concepts we have - the long-term concepts that structure how we think - is instantiated in the synapses of our brains. Concepts are not things that can be changed just by someone telling us a fact. We may be presented with facts, but for us to make sense of them, they have to fit what is already in the synapses of the brain. Otherwise facts go in and then they go right back out. They are not heard, or they are not accepted as facts, or they mystify us: Why would anyone have said that? Then we label the fact [heck, often the person] as irrational, crazy or stupid.&quot; - Don&#039;t Think of an Elephant, by  George Lakoff

The fact is that many people have different ideas of what is valuable, meritorious depending on their worldview. Many  women do hold different perspectives and frames than corporate executives do. A start-up company had me review their plan briefly. They told me that I asked useful questions on a cursory initial meeting that NO ONE else had brought up. I was surprised; but they realized they&#039;d only asked male executives, engineers and financiers with a common career background.

I&#039;ve had my fair share of labeling as &quot;irrational, crazy or stupid&quot; plus &quot;weak, impractical, idealistic&quot; because of my worldview, which I often keep to myself but it echoes Mother Theresa&#039;s idea that small acts done with great love ARE significant. I try to see what&#039;s common among human beings and refrain from &quot;us&quot; versus &quot;them&quot; thinking which mystifies many people.

Thus, merit is assigned by how much facts and ideas fit into our own existing frames/worldviews. Things that fall outside of that frame are unconsciously ignored.

That said, I am speaking at the upcoming BlogBusinessSummit in S.F. in about 3 weeks - www.blogbusinesssummit.org and I intend to bring up new viewpoints with my involvement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy, I applaud what you are trying to do. You&#8217;re absolutely right that just having faces up there isn&#8217;t enough.</p>
<p>The issue with &#8216;meritocracy&#8217; is that there is an underlying implicit assumption of what is &#8216;meritorious.&#8217; It&#8217;s subjective, value judgment ultimately. Gender is bit less an issue than worldviews (i.e. there are a lot of men that relate to me but that&#8217;s because they hold the same worldview or conceptual &#8216;frames&#8217; or values that I do.) I recently wrote an essay on worldviews and &#8220;value memes&#8221; for an upcoming book (More Space, edited by Todd Satterson). It really echoes much of what George Lakoff writes about cognitive science and linguistics. </p>
<p>&#8220;Neuroscience tells us that each of the concepts we have &#8211; the long-term concepts that structure how we think &#8211; is instantiated in the synapses of our brains. Concepts are not things that can be changed just by someone telling us a fact. We may be presented with facts, but for us to make sense of them, they have to fit what is already in the synapses of the brain. Otherwise facts go in and then they go right back out. They are not heard, or they are not accepted as facts, or they mystify us: Why would anyone have said that? Then we label the fact [heck, often the person] as irrational, crazy or stupid.&#8221; &#8211; Don&#8217;t Think of an Elephant, by  George Lakoff</p>
<p>The fact is that many people have different ideas of what is valuable, meritorious depending on their worldview. Many  women do hold different perspectives and frames than corporate executives do. A start-up company had me review their plan briefly. They told me that I asked useful questions on a cursory initial meeting that NO ONE else had brought up. I was surprised; but they realized they&#8217;d only asked male executives, engineers and financiers with a common career background.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had my fair share of labeling as &#8220;irrational, crazy or stupid&#8221; plus &#8220;weak, impractical, idealistic&#8221; because of my worldview, which I often keep to myself but it echoes Mother Theresa&#8217;s idea that small acts done with great love ARE significant. I try to see what&#8217;s common among human beings and refrain from &#8220;us&#8221; versus &#8220;them&#8221; thinking which mystifies many people.</p>
<p>Thus, merit is assigned by how much facts and ideas fit into our own existing frames/worldviews. Things that fall outside of that frame are unconsciously ignored.</p>
<p>That said, I am speaking at the upcoming BlogBusinessSummit in S.F. in about 3 weeks &#8211; <a href="http://www.blogbusinesssummit.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.blogbusinesssummit.org</a> and I intend to bring up new viewpoints with my involvement.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Gahran</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/comment-page-1/#comment-28470</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Gahran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28470</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Nancy and Cheryl.

Nancy, I&#039;m glad SXSW is getting proposals from women, and thanks for encouraging women to make such proposals. 

Still, I&#039;d encourage women getting involved in traditionally male-dominated conferences (or anyone organizing such a conference) to try to find ways to &lt;b&gt;encourage direct discussion&lt;/b&gt; of the potential impact of increasing gender diversity and equity in these fields. 

Let&#039;s get the &lt;i&gt;issue&lt;/i&gt; on the program, not just female faces. 

...Cheryl wrote: &lt;i&gt;&quot;The reason men think that there are no good women IT experts is that they stop listening as soon as a woman opens her mouth.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I agree that&#039;s the case with some individuals (both men and women, and not just in IT). However, in this case, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what Dave indicated. 

Dave said he finds it easier to &quot;read and link to&quot; male perspectives. This does not necessarily mean that he tunes out female perspectives. It just means that he personally finds it easier to relate to men. That may not be politically correct, but it is honest, and it represents a common starting point for many people.

The reason I&#039;d like to have a civil public discussion with Dave about this is that he is willing to admit to his own mental filter -- something many of us avoid doing for fear of criticism. Such openness can be the starting point for a useful, constructive discussion. This is why I&#039;m hoping Dave decides to participate in that discussion, rather than let people put words in his mouth.

- Amy Gahran</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Nancy and Cheryl.</p>
<p>Nancy, I&#8217;m glad SXSW is getting proposals from women, and thanks for encouraging women to make such proposals. </p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;d encourage women getting involved in traditionally male-dominated conferences (or anyone organizing such a conference) to try to find ways to <b>encourage direct discussion</b> of the potential impact of increasing gender diversity and equity in these fields. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s get the <i>issue</i> on the program, not just female faces. </p>
<p>&#8230;Cheryl wrote: <i>&#8220;The reason men think that there are no good women IT experts is that they stop listening as soon as a woman opens her mouth.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I agree that&#8217;s the case with some individuals (both men and women, and not just in IT). However, in this case, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what Dave indicated. </p>
<p>Dave said he finds it easier to &#8220;read and link to&#8221; male perspectives. This does not necessarily mean that he tunes out female perspectives. It just means that he personally finds it easier to relate to men. That may not be politically correct, but it is honest, and it represents a common starting point for many people.</p>
<p>The reason I&#8217;d like to have a civil public discussion with Dave about this is that he is willing to admit to his own mental filter &#8212; something many of us avoid doing for fear of criticism. Such openness can be the starting point for a useful, constructive discussion. This is why I&#8217;m hoping Dave decides to participate in that discussion, rather than let people put words in his mouth.</p>
<p>- Amy Gahran</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/comment-page-1/#comment-28468</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28468</guid>
		<description>I suspect this goes back to your comments about Dave Winer. The reason men think that there are no good women IT experts is that they stop listening as soon as a woman opens her mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect this goes back to your comments about Dave Winer. The reason men think that there are no good women IT experts is that they stop listening as soon as a woman opens her mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy White</title>
		<link>http://www.contentious.com/2005/08/02/women-at-tech-conferences-tokenism-comment-scoble/comment-page-1/#comment-28465</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28465</guid>
		<description>I got an email from Hugh Forrest from SXSW. I mentioned that he will probably be getting some proposals for panels for next year from some fantastic women. Guess what? He already has. So yeah, lets get into action. Ask to speak. Submit proposals, attend en masse and show the SMART conference organizers that there is a savvy, intersted market out there waiting to be served.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got an email from Hugh Forrest from SXSW. I mentioned that he will probably be getting some proposals for panels for next year from some fantastic women. Guess what? He already has. So yeah, lets get into action. Ask to speak. Submit proposals, attend en masse and show the SMART conference organizers that there is a savvy, intersted market out there waiting to be served.</p>
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